How To Add More Personality To Your Launch Copy
Dec 15, 2021
Writing copy that really, truly sounds like you is one of the best ways to get people to know, like, and trust you. Letting the real you shine through is also an opportunity to call in the people you’d actually love to work with most. Christina Torres shares strategies for ditching the corporate-speak and letting your personality pop.
In this episode, we talked about...
- why I sent my biz bestie to check out Christina's website
- the reason letting your personality shine through matters
- how culture fits into copy
- what the heck is copy tawking
- ideas on how you can start writing so you actually sound like yourself
- the consequence of not talking like ourselves
...and much, much more
Things mentioned in this episode
Learn more about Christina Torres
Christina Torres is a Chief Creative Officer of R&TT (Run & Tell That) and Co-Host of the Bagels & Plantain Podcast Run & Tell That. She is a Brooklyn-born pronoun she her New York Rican copywriter and Content Designer she writes and Gabs, on and on about Real Talk writer by wed wordage, aka copy edutainment, aka content for creative brands, and creatives who are customer and culture obsessed.
Read the full transcript so you don't miss a thing
Sara: So you're going to have to write a ton of copy for your business over the years. That's just the facts. And it's truly though one of the best ways to get people to know like and trust you, and some opportunity to call in the people that you'd actually love to work with most by letting the real you shine through so that all your likes, lows and loves are out there. And that's why I called in Christina Torres for today's episode. Christina is a Brooklyn born pronouns she her New York Rican copywriter and Content Designer she writes and Gabs, on and on about Real Talk writer by wed wordage, aka copy edutainment, aka content for creative brands, and creatives who are customer and culture obsessed. So keep listening, because I know Christina doesn't hold anything back. And she's gonna be spilling some juicy tidbits on how to write it in a way that really truly sounds like you.
You're listening to the launch playbook podcast, the weekly podcast for service based business owners to discover the starts, stops and tools to transformation that go into launching their online offers. I'm your host, Sara Vartanian. And if you want to launch your ideas into the world faster, with more success and less burnout. Well, friend, consider this show your secret playbook to get you there.
Hey, Christina, welcome.
Christina: Hey, Sara thank you for having me.
Sara: I'm so excited to dig into this topic with you today, we have had plenty of conversations about personality, and I've even hired you to help me juice up my sales pages. And I felt like they were falling flat and not even Truly Me. I think it's hard to do for yourself, right? Like read your own copy in a way that really pops. I'd say especially maybe as a copywriter sometimes. So wow, really thrilled to bring you in. And I want to tell you, I don't know if you know this, Christina. But long before we ever chatted, I had checked out your website, and I was totally fangirling it and I remember sending a link to one of my bits Bessie saying like, check out this site. It's so good. And because your personality jumped off the page, like I knew what you're about. I could just imagine what it'd be like to chat with you. When we actually did meet. I was like, Yup, makes sense. You are like what your website's like and I love that. So tell us how do you do that so well?
Christina: How do I did that. So well. I think innately. If I just think about most of the communications I've had in life, I had a really hard time communicating in, I don't know, audibles with my mouth. And it was always a lot easier for me to just write what I thought later down the line. I didn't realize why. But I just was really good at just writing and storytelling and just saying things in the way I thought and I just didn't think there was really any thing where I think most people actually can I think where things go awry is that school gets in the way and corporate politics get in the way. And just, you know, wanting to feel safe.
And when you're in certain areas and certain groups, sometimes being yourself is not safe. And you have to figure out a way in a not even in a way that you feel threatened, like you want to relate humans just want to relate. And for so long, we're kind of stuck at places where we're not really able to relate or not like one on one level, we're able to relate inside of like a school culture inside of a corporate culture supply, even inside of you know, if you're like on a sales team inside sales culture, but you're not allowed to be like yourself. And I think that's because everyone wants to feel welcome. But in actuality, people feel ostracized.
So I just had a really hard time communicating way I wanted to communicate. I was, you know, even throughout elementary school, you know, I lived in Brooklyn, and I wasn't wide enough for the white people. I was Puerto Rico, for the Puerto Rican people, it was a black enough for the black people. And I just felt like, my voice will go over there just went all over the place. And I guess at some point, I just kind of was like that, really early on. It was like, I just gotta be me. And people really like it. When I'm really me that's worked out thus far. And the people who don't like it seemed to stay away. And thank goodness, because those aren't the people I want. And I think that just kind of naturally, I didn't know that would be a talent. I didn't know that I can monetize that until, like one day, I figured out what copywriting was, until I realized like, why certain advertisements tickled me and why certain brands I would buy from even when like the product wasn't like anything better than anything out there. Like the packaging and the messaging was enough for me. And once I realized that was a thing. I was like, I have to like bottle this up and sell it because it's really easy for me to do. So I think just early on. I just knew the value of relating to people in a way that felt good to me. And I was like I need to like I need to tell everybody this is a thing and I need to sell it.
Sara: Okay, there's so many things I want to dig into there. So He's getting really excited. Okay. So first I want to ask you, you're mentioning how people like me come into writing, we're usually bringing, like all this corporate speak or maybe the way we wrote like, and university or high school because we, you know, we had to follow this like this way of being, right they asked us to do. And if suddenly now, when we're writing for our business, it doesn't really make me feel like our copy has any like zing or us to it. What can we do about that?
Christina: I think the first thing we can do about that is, I would say, the one thing about most of my clients is that they're just, they're the opposite of me. They're excellent verbal processors and auditory communicators. They always like the number one, I feel like problem they have, or they say that they have is like, I can say it, I can say it, and I can sell it. But when I go to write it, I don't know I just nothing comes out, or the things that do come out are just so brutal. And I think I think what really happens there is that and what I urge everyone to do is if you're not already creating content, or you're talking, and you're just like blabbing, and you're coming off the hip, and people are already asking you questions, maybe it's an IG TV, maybe it's a podcast that you're doing, you know, whether you have your own or you're on as on as a guest.
Hello, you record yourself in like real life. Like if you're recording your sales calls, like, you know, you should anyway for market research, but if you're not, if it's if it's any incentive to just understand like, right, how you speak, because I hear that all the time. And if we will, like, but let was, but like, what is that no one says what it really means no one really says what it means. And no one says the other part of it, is understanding the parts of you and your business that lights people up, that is also part of your speech, what I like to call like, your clients love language, right?
Because you are essentially having a conversation. And so, you know, if you just thought about it like that, like how you naturally speak, when you're on sales calls, right? And how you naturally speak with someone, I don't know, maybe ask you advice in a Facebook group, even then, like you're still typing, you're not talking aloud. But like, Would you all of a sudden start using big words? You do you use emoticons sometimes? Or emojis? Like, how do you actually speak when you talk to humans? If we just took away like, everyone's gonna see this thing? You know, you're not Johnson and Johnson, you don't need to, like appeal to the masses, you're usually working with some version of you or people, some people resonate, you know, so I think the first place to start is where in the wild naturally, how are you talking to people.
And then find out what are the things that people you know, that lights them up, you could probably find that in your engagement, or somewhere in your content, or even in the Facebook groups that you naturally help people in, your voice is already kind of, it's there, it's out in the world. We just have it, like documented it. You know, maybe you're direct, maybe you're cadent. Maybe you're not a long, fluffy writer. I'm a breathy I wouldn't say on fluff, there's no doubt and a lot of fluff. But I have a lot of tangents. Because just because of how I naturally talk. And that's how I naturally think. Like I'm like writing and then all of a sudden squirrel or an aside. Because I want to give people context, I want people to feel like they were there with me if I talk about something an email, or I have a thought that's a little inappropriate that I wouldn't say, outside in the world, because you're in my inbox, which means like, you're in my living room, that I can say that, because I feel like this is a safe place to say that.
So there's a lot of places and I think that's a great way to break it down is like what do you say when you're like at the bar? What do you say in your living room? Who do you say like, once you're like, besties with a client? How do you speak to them? Right? I think there's different ways we relate to people, and you're already doing it. So I will say just like, investigate how you're expressing yourself in those different places. And in your voices there.
Sara: Okay, so I love this concept. And I think I've heard you call it for like coffee talking. Right? You're saying that there's all these places that were already doing it. So when we go and investigate what can we like? What we do with that information? Like how do we gather it? How can we put it together so we can see, I guess like what's emerging?
Christina: Yeah. So when you're like in a conversation with anyone the best way I can relate it to because I just feel like an adult life maybe it kid life you are but in adult life, you're never like, I when I think of converting, I just think about like getting the number like you're dating right? When you're an adult you don't really think about like, that's my best friend, I get their best friend want but you don't really think well I like that. But we can get into that there is an aspect where that is kind of happening. Sometimes a friend becomes so when you date someone who was really intimate in your life, or someone who's just your best friend. So you try to think about like, what is that conversation you have when you first meet someone and what does that person want to know? They want to know who you are maybe they want to know, like, what drew you to them? Like the why? Why would you use them to talk to them? Or you know why? I don't know what why do you feel called to talk to me? And like, what are we going to talk about? And what are we going to do after we talk?
So those are kind of the like, the coffee talk, I think about the coffee talk framework, and they kind of overlap. It's basically who, what, why, right? So when you go into a conversation, and you introduce yourself, you at least told them who usually don't leave the conversation. And that's it. And then the person is just looking at me like, all okay, well, I was offered, I think I'm gonna go over there now. You didn't tell them what you wanted to do? Do you want to go get a drink with me at the bar? Maybe we should exchange emails, I'm hungry. Let's go hoard the snacks over there. Right? Or we should have coffee sometime. It's just strange to just like blurt something at someone and then not follow up with a call to action in real life.
So, you know, and like I said, why? When you come up to somebody, oh my god, I had to talk to you because you were wearing this. This happens to me a lot, because I wear a lot of colorful clothes at conferences, just because I know no one's wearing colorful clothes at conferences. Like everyone's wearing a sweater and some jeans or a blazer and I'm gonna come in there with the loudest brightest tracksuit I could possibly find. So feeling like oh my god, I had to talk to you because you had those. I have like these MC Hammer and metallic pants. Hands on to you because you had these pants on. Right?
And for me, the normal person would be like, Oh, okay, like, Oh, that's really why you need to talk to me. But those are some of the things that people don't think about. Like people want to talk to you because you love me when we were working on your on your sales page. I was like, oh my god, I love salt and salt, vinegar chips. I think that I would hire you just because you're like something that no one else lacking? Rarely, the people I know who like it, love it. But the people who don't are just like me, no, no, I would eat that. And I'm like, they're delicious. And there was so many things that we had in common that I didn't even know about you that like once I read it on the sales page. That's why it lives.
So there are these things that kind of just really, like, we get so caught up in being businessy and professional. And like, wanting everyone to like us, which is which is strange, because how can you be businessy, but then want everyone to like us? Because businesses no big large business know who their audiences, how they know who they're targeting. It's not incidental that like you like something because the business is doing it. Right. There's plenty of people who make parent make diapers, like I was about to say Pampers. Pampers is a brand, not the diaper. Many people make diapers, and the people have an affinity for one or the other. For whatever reason, it's the same when it comes to you.
If you're worried about everyone liking you, newsflash, it's impossible, just like in real life. So you have to kind of make it just just relatedly people are humans. At the end of the day, you're having a conversation. And people just want to know who what, why. Right? Who's this for? who's tried it? What do you do? Why should I care? Why do you care? Right? And if I do this thing, is it so I can have what so that I can be who so that I can do this thing? It's it seems so much more complicated than it is. But if you think about just our natural conversations in life, your your, your sales page is probably there already. So if you need to figure out what your sales pages, then you need to start investigating your sales calls. And wherever you close, maybe it's your DMS, maybe it's the discovery call, maybe it's that second call, and figuring out where in that conversation that you see people both doing the light goes off. That's probably your sales page.
Sara: That's so interesting, and I know what I like the cold out or something that I've never heard someone explain the way you just did really was like, the whole thing you're saying about like, the pants that you were like the MC Hammer, like metallic pants, or like, my salt and vinegar, vinegar, Chip affinity, right. Like, those are things that you're like, Wait, that doesn't actually have to do with the thing that they're selling. But it's what it's why we like them. And so we're drawing people for other things like you're saying, like the fun, cool pants, the like, the snack preferences, all these other things, and where, you know, maybe when they get to us for buying that brings them to us they get to us for buying or like kind of closing that like yeah, they want to know, the way we're going to do things and all that stuff like that we know we're talking about but that's not actually what brought them fo our world probably in the first place some of that stuff. It's like, so it's like I have to let more of ourselves, like who we really are shine through to pull in those people. Is that sort of?
Christina: Yeah, exactly. Because there's more than one. There's more than one. Oh my god, how many personality driven coffee? I don't even hate that term. Honestly. Yes. Personality copywriter personality driven copywriters, how many sassy copywriters how many conversion copywriters are there? You have to really differentiate and maybe maybe like Pacino, I wish I knew pants Oh Oh, yeah, I don't, I don't eat like he does like whatever. I'm holistic vegan. No, I don't know, just made that up, but like, Okay, fine. So what is it about your process? That is kind of quirky? What is it about, like, there that you have, even if you're boring? I think that's even funnier if you are like, are just dry, and boring and sarcastic. Or maybe you're sweet. Like, I feel like everyone's trying to be sassy. And I hate that, sir. Because
Sara: I'm not sassy. either.
Christina: Yeah, like, what a sassy mean, huh? Sometimes, but a little sorry, I guess maybe I'm just direct. I'm not even that. Not even that, like, I'm not when I think fasciae can think me. And I'm like, I'm not mean, just busy. I have so many thoughts. I have to get it out now. So, you know, feed into that. Like, if people like just whatever, like if you have everyone has these weird little quirks. And maybe it's not about you, let's say like this, I have a lot like people are like, Well, I'm not a person out. I'm not a personal brand. Right? I work with people who it's like a yoga studio. It's not about me, it's about this yoga studio, which is fine. But that yoga studio still has an identity, right? There's certain types of people that like to come to the seal the studio, right? There's still there's a billion in one yoga studios, what is different about your yoga studio, you know, and I work with a lot of women of color.
And, you know, saying that you are a woman in color owned business, maybe five years ago, was enough. But now there's a lot of us and thank goodness. But now what what sets you like, not all women of color are the same. Like that's just a label. There's something about you, that draws you to that place, right? There's something about that draws you to that service. You know, there's a billion ways to do yoga, there's hip hop, yoga, there's yoga, goat's or sheep's, I don't know, there's all types of stuff. So what is this thing? If it's if you're not, if you don't feel like you're a personal brand, your brand still has a personality? So what is it this thing that our people are really drawn to? You know, maybe you do take yourself seriously, there are people who want that. There's people who like yeah, no, I don't have personality either. Or, like, I'm just here to get stuff done. That's, that's a, that's a, that's a dish. That's a group of people, too, who are like, Oh, we're not here to be funny. We're here to get work done.
There's plenty of people who are like, I'm not here to be a best friend. I just want the work. I just want to work great and just want great work. That is there's a whole nice, I'm sure for that. There's a whole group of people who aspire to that there's people who probably have a guide at the site of working with me. And that those are there people? How would those people know that there's a person like that if everyone's trying to be sassy? Everyone's trying to be fair, everyone's trying to be Christina.
Sara: So I like that you call out that if we could be whoever we are, right? Like, the boring, the sassy, the sarcastic, the straightforward, whatever we can be that. And so you're saying that one of the ways to find out what's working, what draws people to us, is to really investigate, I guess those initial calls we have or those contacts we have with people to see like what it was that drew them to us. So some of the ways you're saying that we could like listen to back to our sales calls. But let's say we're, we don't have sales calls or something else. How else can we do like is it ask them questions on a survey on like, on a contact form? Like what we're off screen got to figure that out? What people are really drawn to?
Christina: Other places? Well, you know, my favorite is Instagram, if you like, share your life, and your behind the scenes. I know. And I feel like this is what happens. People tell everyone like what to do on social media, which is great. There are people who need what, but I need why. Why do you want me to share that on social media? Why would anyone care about that? Well, if you share behind the scenes of your life, if you share your process, if you share little tidbits of your life, it doesn't have to be you I get a lot of people who like ooh, I don't want to share my kids on Instagram. I don't know, I'm not saying all that you get to decide how you safely show up in social media or where please, people get to engage with you.
It doesn't have to be Instagram, it can either be LinkedIn, I hear things, again, a little more personality driven on LinkedIn, too. So where can you go to share tidbits of your life? And to kind of like poll and test the waters with your audience. Right? Well, behind the scenes thing. It could be the weirdest thing. It could be like someone just saw like a mug that's next to your computer. And they have the same mug, or they have the same saying that's on that mug on their calendar. So I think social media is a great way to poll and see how people are relating to you. And so that's why kind of giving people a sneak peek into your business into your life into the process, actually, I think naturally has people curious, right? And then who pay attention to those questions. Pay attention to the type of content or stories that get a lot of views or you know, they even have, they have excellent poll features, even on you know, I've been diving back into LinkedIn, because for me it was just a Too dry place to be.And it just triggered me because I really didn't like corporate arenas. But I've seen that they even have polls there. So you can do polls, if you're like, oh, I don't have an email list, right? Because you're not doing sales calls, or you're just starting out and you don't have like, this huge email list, like, Who are you going to send surveys to? And I don't think at that stage of your business, you should be paid for surveys. And the people who take those surveys, I just don't feel like they're really candid. I have, I think in most things, like even in questionnaires, and in copy briefs, like people are not as inclined to share. Candidly, maybe because it's written on paper, maybe because they're too much in their head, maybe because they need they need context and intent. But if you're like, oh, I don't show up all those places. I mean, hop on calls, tell people like, Hey, this is what I'm doing. I think you'd be like, I love I would love to work with somebody like you, I just want to pick your brain about a few things. Do you have 15 minutes, you know, where we can chat.
And we could talk through something, you know, try to make it so that it benefits them. If you got a little cash, maybe send them a Starbucks or whatever, or something. But you kind of have to find places to have conversations with them. If you're not having automated sales conversations with people, then I would say a start engaging on social media and seeing what like hits, you may feel like you're throwing things against the wall. But that's really the only way you're gonna learn and let people into your quote unquote boring life. No one's boring, social media is just so entertaining that you like I can't possibly be that entertaining. Good. The things I watch on social media actually quite boring. The shows that I watch are quite boring. And that fascinates people, people are like you're so like, like, it's just like, so out there and like crazy. And then they find out like all I watch is UK television.
They're like why? Because like, I just love it, it's so good. And they're allowed to curse. And they're like, I just feel like they get to be a little bit more darker. And I like darker sense of humor. So they get to be a little bit more darker than like US or Canadian. Like we were only allowed to be happy all the time. They feel like in the UK because it's the weather's not great. They get to be like darker and their stuff. And I also like their lighthearted stuff. I just think that stuff is great. So when they're like, Wait, so you listen to like Wu Tang, and then you watch UK. I'm an anomaly. And all of us are all of us are. So I think finding the way if it's not Instagram, I think just literally asking people to talk to you. And you'd be surprised in a day and age where no one talks to each other. When I'm like, Hey, we should catch up people like yeah, let's do it. And I've maybe I've only engaged with a once or twice on Instagram, and maybe DM them that people have never even seen in real life. Well, yeah, let's call let's have a call. Let's have a chat. No strings, you don't have to pitch anyone just see like naturally how the conversation flows. And if you can ask, Hey, you can be candid, like, Hey, I'm really just trying to find out why people even like me, do you might have my record. This may sound weird, and be like, Hey, if you're interested, I'll send you the recording. Right? There.
Those are just some really cool ways that I think, you know, you can do that or host some free content I love to do you know me, I love a good free planning session because I need people to help me keep accountable. But I learned more and more about people. You know, what tugs at their heartstrings? What kind of goals they have, they teach me so much. I think we just need to think we just need more human contact, and you'd be surprised how much that influences your business. Just hanging out?
Sara: Yeah, I see that for sure. I sort of agree with what you're talking about. Like I have found that the funniest things have brought people to me when I end up like asking like, oh, like why didn't you reach out? I get like, oh, well, I love your your picture. Like you always look like you have so many pictures of you just like laughing. So I feel like I would like have a good time with you. Like we would laugh. And then I've had like even people who have signed up for sales calls they they've been like, and like the little personality things in your emails that you add in like on the way to booking the call. And it's so interesting. All these like little things that we think are probably like, not so much or like not so interesting that add up to making people want to talk to us more maybe work with us, right? And it's just all these like that those little like layers of personality of stuff that makes us us. And I feel like we put those things in more. By the time they have calls with us or you're thinking of booking with us. They're already kind of pre sold. Would you agree?
Christina: Oh, yeah, I have. I wish I could pick it. Let me see if I can. I'll try to do it while I talk. So I kind of have something very similar. In my questionnaire, when you my question, I started my application, or my rent the brainwaves which is the copy done in a day VIP day that I do. And so I think that's also a great place. If you can like it doesn't you don't just want your personality in your website or on your Instagram or your sales page. Like you need to rig it 360 Like it has now you can get it on your questionnaires. If you can get it on your even your emails when you onboard people, I feel it gives people free range to kind of also a they feel more comfortable, they know what to expect from you, but also gives people free range to be themselves. So by the time they get on a call with me, they I feel like they feel a little looser. So they don't feel like oh, I know what's gonna happen. It's not like this very medicinal doctor's office thing where you filling out the thing, they're like, I don't know, this doc is gonna be like, I'm going to get in there. And they're like, a really nice, regular person. Like, you know, they're just regular people are just like, Oh, why would that I wish people did that with forms, but I guess they have to make sure that everybody can understand it.
But like, I just wish my medical parents are more exciting. xiety about going into the doctor's office, because I'm like, who's gonna be there a robot? So I was without I was saying, so yeah, if you can bake it into those places, right. And that's one of the first things I have I have in my application, I didn't always have it, because I just found that people already knew they wanted to work with me, like you said, like, Oh, my God, let's hop on a call. But I did want to, I needed to kind of start creating some boundaries, or creating some expectations about like, how many how things costs, and just like having a flow of things. So people felt really safe, and felt like they knew what I was doing.
So one of my questions on my, my application, it says, no, why? Why be why now says why more? But why me? Why now? Right? For some people, it's different things. It's, it's, you know, it's very direct, or I just find like, if you can bake in as much as your personality into these touch points, you can get a lot more candid answers from people, when things are really like prescriptive, and cold. And generic. People give you very prescriptive, cold, generic answer.
And you're like, Oh, God, like clearly, like, what is this answer? When you knew what you wanted? And sometimes it doesn't work. But that's perfect. Because then you know, okay, this person is not finished. Yet. Yeah, that's okay. I know what I'm working with. And I know from the gate, like, this is the type of copy I'm working with. Right? And so, like, there, I just have clients that they're really not as most of my clients are as kooky, and all over the place as I am. But like, I would say, 30% of them are not, they're just like, yep, just so you could write copy, but something of them related them, like my very zen, and I'm not a very zen person, you know, when they greet me, they say piece on every email, and I'm like, Oh, that's so nice. That's what I need in my day. It's not Hey, right, their personality does already they have a very Yogi personality. But when we got on the call, they were like, you know, I was like, so what is like your voice like acid, they had a brand voice guide or something somewhere I can find their voice and I didn't, I don't necessarily need one. That's not necessarily how I need to work. But it's helpful. So I'm not trying to scour the internet for your voice. And she's like, You know what, I'm like you I'm actually from New York. I'm very direct. And I was like, Haha, there was something at first I was like, why would she pick me?
But we have not our voices are not we have nothing in common. There's nothing Zen about my brand. You will never find anything about a meditation, a journal, a downward dog, there's none of that. None of that is happening anywhere in my life. I have meditation gives me the hives just thinking about it. But New York, the second someone, like I have people who are like, Oh my god, I found this Brooklyn mug, this Brooklyn TISA and I thought of you, because there's not a day that doesn't go by that you don't know that. I'm from Brooklyn. That's, that's, that's my, what Laura Belgrade calls, it's part of my coat of arms. Brooklyn will be on there forever. Some other things may change as I grow, and I become an adult, like, I don't know how long like MTV and SpongeBob will be there, maybe forever.
Maybe I feel like I'm 34 and I still haven't let it go. So I'm pretty sure it's gonna be there forever. But those are like the things that draw people to you. So to kind of go back to that last question. If you're not in those places, if you're like, oh, social media drains me, the idea of getting a call on a complete stranger trips me up, then you need to find a way to bake in as much as you can into your automation into your onboarding into your questionnaires into your applications. So that you give people the opportunity to feel safe to be themselves. And they may not you'll find that they may not they may not have the same personality, they may not even, you know, talk like you but if you give them to make this less human and more more human and less prescriptive that I think you'd be surprised about the people there's just like this is one thing that people just really latch on to and you're like, it's not my impressive testimonials.
And for that I'm from New York. I don't know that's enough to qualify me as the copywriter but maybe you know instinctively like this is gonna be a no games. We just don't get things done like people know. You won't be offended if I seem very direct. I'm just trying to get to the you know, there'll be a rapport there's a comfortability, I think all humans just want to feel comfortable before they give someone their money. And their IP. In my case, right there, people are literally giving me absolutely their businesses.
Sara: I love that you called out about the fact that like, especially if you're someone who maybe isn't like so extroverted, doesn't want to put yourself out there over like Instagram are different things that there are all those other like subtle ways to make this in, like through your forums, through your bio, through those emails that people get from you, and things like that. So it doesn't all have to be, you know, all out there talking, verbally processing online, different things that there's there's different ways that we can still make your personality shine through. And so I really appreciate that. And they know like, I'm an introvert. So that's how I started with a lot of my stuff was like, in my forms, like baked in, right? Like, all these little, it's all these little touch points. And then as I got more comfortable with business, and just being out there online, like let more of that come through and other ways. And I feel like I think that's what happens is like, the more you see, yeah, that kind of word like, let's say, like, turn people on to you or like that you get response or the more you'll dig into that and feel confident to let more of that out and kind of have it fly, right?
Christina: Yeah, that's so funny that you said your insurer did. This is a perfect case. I'm extremely extroverted. 90% of my clients are introverted. We're polar opposites. And that's what attracts, maybe that's what attracts people to me, I have no idea. Or maybe I do it in a way that makes people feel safe. It's not like I'm extroverted. And I make you feel like, Oh, God, please stop talking. Maybe I do. But that's why I go and re copy. You only have to talk to me for 30 minutes. Like, don't be with this all the time. But but that's 90% of my clients. So you'll be surprised. Sometimes it's the opposite thing people want. Because if I weren't like, why would someone who's great at copy? I mean, at some point, you do want to delegate things. There's some things in your business, you're gonna want to delegate and actually think, you know, those are probably the first things you should because it's probably documented very well. There's some things that you're good at that you probably should start letting go of at some point.
But let's say you know, you are really great at let's say you're not you're not really good at copywriting, you're going to want someone who's a copywriter. Vice versa if you like, I want personality in my brand. But I'm so introverted and it's up to, you know, people introverted, for different reasons. I need someone who's a little bit more extroverted, who is not scared to say like, it was not scared to say that I'm awesome. I think everyone who comes to me is brilliant. And I'm just like, you don't understand this right here. This is why people want this is why people are there. They're like, oh, like, I'm gonna guide you. So I'm introverted. Introverted does not mean you don't have a personality.
Sara: Absolutely. Yeah.
Christina: Introverted just means you have a fuse. And you're very careful about who you share that energy with. All right. And you know, even extroverts get tired of being on all the time, I have many times where like, enough of humans for a month. But yeah, you'd be surprised, like people want that, like, Oh, they're the opposite of me. And that's what I need. I need someone who's the opposite of me to do this right now, because me is not getting it done. So maybe someone who I would aspire my copy to sound like, or I would aspire for them to have that angle. Or to shout my message for me. That's the person so I that's my, that's my idea. That's my thinking. Because I just don't like I'd rarely get another extroverted person to work with me.
Sara: I know, I can't speak for all introverts, but I have to say to you that like, probably my favorite people in business, like my bestie. And like, you and a few other people are all generally extroverts compared to me, and I feel like maybe we're drawn to people who have things that we like, again, that we admire, like you're saying that like that we see like doing things that we want to do so we can help like, I feel like it's borrowing somebody like like, I don't want to talk to you like it's borrowing, some of your confidence and borrowing to me, like the your ability to share and put things out there. And it's almost like I get to lean on that energy, right? A little bit and like, deep and then because you're someone whom I know when I talk to you at least, it's like, I feel you know, your extra, but I also feel safe with you. Right? So it's like, it allows me to actually let more of my personality hang out because I think as you said introverts aren't necessarily don't have not have don't have not don't not have personality, but we're careful about who we share it with. And we probably shine the most through like one on ones right? Or like small groups. So um, no, again, speaking, as an introvert I think I'm drawn to that side of you for sure. And again, like my other bits, Bessie, stuff all all extroverts that I lead to and I and that I really love and appreciate and I think that's, you know, when I came to you for help with the sales page for launch worthy, it was that like, exactly that. It was like I knew that I'd written I'm a copywriter rights like I knew I'd written a good sales page, let's say like in all the technical forums, but I knew I wasn't letting myself shine through and I couldn't I couldn't do it for myself. I couldn't like it was like no one really wants to hear that or it's not quite right and but I knew that like I know that you're so good at letting that shine through, and you're so good at like, you'd call me out on stuff. And that's exactly what happened. Right? Like, I booked one of your copy. Good to goes. You called me out on it. You're like, Well, yeah, this is good. But like, it's not really all the Sarah that I know. And you're hiding parts of yourself in here. And you called me on it was just like the direct part. And I loved it because I was like, I know. This is why the matriarch is me.
Christina: But she's got this. Sara's really nice. She's not a pushover. And she's gonna tell you some hard truths really nicely. And probably the very jokey sarcastically way, what else like, Yeah, but it's not biscuits and tea. We're not Oh, biscuits at tea?
Sara: I don't know. So that's what I really appreciated like that. You call that out? And that's when I came back when we booked the day, right? So that we had the conversation, you asked great questions. And then he really felt like, like, I know that you, you know, saw me and heard me. And that came out through the sales page now. So I had something that had all the parts I needed to have. And then also you let me use, you pulled out all those things that I couldn't say for myself, right, that I felt like maybe people don't give a crap about but you're like, No, they care. So hard to do it for yourself? For sure. So why do you think in the end, like who's coming on? Why did you get matters, let our personality shine through?
Christina: You know what it's been like literally screaming in the back of my mind. Every time he asked me questions like, say this, say this, right now, let me finish my thought brain. I think it's really, it's really important to as much as you feel, and this is I know, probably whoever's listening to this, like, Oh, God, she says safe one more time. But that's like, 90% of the reason why people don't, I'll start with that, who don't want to share their world and their personality. And I want you to kind of examine that, like, what what, what do you need to feel safe? Right? And how and what point? And how much in a relationship with someone? Do you feel safe enough to share those things? And it's kind of the same with your copy or your, your, your funnel? Right? When you meet somebody, maybe I'm not going to for different reasons, right? I'm very, okay, at this point in my life to share that I have ADHD, I'm a single mom, I'm queer. I mean, I've never been in shape to say I'm a woman of color, or Latinx or Hispanic. And it's not like, it's obvious, like, that's another thing that you could be like, Oh, that's very that.
But some people don't feel safe around that. So it feels safe to do those don't feel safe to share those parts of themselves. And that's completely okay. No one has to no one's needing you to do that. But if you find that you actually do end up sharing those things. And at some point, those relate that really ship that makes your relationship stronger with your client, with your, you know, even the people you work with, whether they're consultants or their employees, you get to figure out what part of this, you know, the relationship that you feel ready to express those things. So maybe on Instagram, you're not ready to express those things, right? That's when you first meet people, or people you know, or maybe it's a podcast like this. Maybe it's a blog post? Or maybe it's a guest post wherever people are finding you.
First, you don't feel safe about that. Okay, great. Isn't maybe when you've exchanged numbers, and you guys are texting each other, aka, email, or inbox? Do you feel safe? Maybe now that you're on the call, right? Are there some ways that you could start expressing your personality in different parts of your funnel or customer journey, or whatever you want to call it? service blueprint, people call it different things. It's just the layers in which people are getting in this deeper relationship with you. And that will also I think, that's maybe a safer way to do it. And it just makes more sense. And you're no one's feelings get hurt, when it comes time to get on that sales call or to get to working on that project. And then you figure out that that person on many levels does not align with your values, you need to be really somewhere in that process upfront. So we can get those people out of there.
You're not going to love everyone you work with, but you at least want to be respected and you want to feel safe with everyone you work with. And vice versa. Right? You want to give that person the opportunity to be like, Oh, no, don't want to work with person like that. That's fine. I think that's completely okay. That's their loss. But don't you want to feel safe in that relationship? So I think, you know, I would ask people to investigate that. The next part is like, like we just said, like your personality, we have no idea why people, we know why people hire us, right? They're usually already solution or solution, our problem aware, so they know what they need. And they kind of know what they're solving for. They know, they know what they want to fix, and they at least know that the solution you're providing is going to help it and the reason they know that is because there's plenty of people in the sea who have said that that this is it's been confirmed that this is the solution.
How are you going to do differentiate yourself from all those people doing the exact same thing you're doing. And you'd be surprised at what that is. It couldn't be a framework. It couldn't be literally that you drink Starbucks and not Dunkin. I have had so many people in my audience the other day say they don't drink Dunkin Donuts, but I also think it's an East Coast thing. So I'll say Starbucks. Absolutely got that right. But I know things about my audience now. And so that there are so many people work with me to learn from New York people work for me, because I'm extroverted people walk work for me. I've had people who work with me because I have typos in my email. And you would think, if I'm a copywriter, you don't want typos in my email. But what they liked is that that didn't stop me from promoting or having a that that gave them the, the strength to be like, wow, you know what, she sent that email Anyway, she's a copywriter.
For other people, they'd be like, she really needs to freaking get a proofreader. Because by sending out emails of typos in it, it's like, because I'm writing them on the go, and I'm a mom, right? And there's like, the people will know that about me if people knew if I just seemed perfect. And every time those like little flaws came out, that that just like, didn't people, there's probably maybe a bunch of there's probably single moms in in my sphere, who like, I don't have time for emails, neither do I. And that's why you get typod emails. So you never know. And so you kind of really just throw things at the wall. And if you don't share those parts of you, you know, that you feel like maybe someone doesn't care about someone cares, someone cares.
And that that doesn't mean that and someone will think of that. Like, don't you want people to be like, Oh, I saw this at the store. I thought of this copywriter. My best friend needs a copywriter. Hey, best friend, does he as a copywriter, you have no idea why people are referring you or attracted to you, and it will be the weirdest thing. Maybe it's salt and vinegar chips. Maybe it's a typo. I have no idea. I won't know until they share it by job.
Sara: So Christina, what's the consequence of not writing? Like you talk?
Christina: I think the consequence of not writing how you talk, and I know it sounds so simple. And I think like it just, it doesn't maybe occur naturally. And it didn't occur to me for a while that it's not only it's not just about like how you talk to me, yes, it is essentially. But sometimes Sometimes writing how you talk, it could mean not writing how you talk could mean leaving out boundaries, could mean few things it can mean again, not feeling safe working with the people you are, it could mean not telling the truth. Right? It could you could honestly be feeding a lie, or, you know, so much I feel like, I think what, what kind of it used to drive me crazy, because I was just like, why can't I just like, do things without realizing like, all the connect the dots, right? And I think where marketing has failed us. And I don't know, maybe I do, I have no problem always blaming the patriarchy.
But I think marketing comes from a place of really just, it can not all the time, but like just gaslighting people into thinking they're a problem, that they have a problem that this thing is gonna solve their problem. And if this thing doesn't solve their problem, then it's their fault. Like it's just very, and writing how you speak it speaking your truth, I think, really, really builds not only trust with whoever is going to work with you. But it's it's the ripple of creating a culture. Right? Like businesses have cultures, businesses have ethos. Businesses have missions and vision. And most of the time, a lot of times it's a friend. But like, Wouldn't it be amazing if you were that business, who walks their talk, and talks their walk, and people feel really safe to work with you. People love giving you their money. People don't give people don't give money continuously to people they don't feel a connection to in order to feel usually, I mean, you want, you would hope you would want a good connection, you wouldn't want a toxic connection with someone? Yeah, I think that's one of the things, you know, working with people who just don't get it. Like just just don't get it just you know, you don't want people to undermine you, you know, you want it to be very clear about who you work with, and why you work with them. And you don't have to explicitly say like, it's this person, that person, but writing how you talk sometimes lays the groundwork for that. Right.
You don't have to be so this is for you. If you're if this is for you if right there's some of them who do this, people will do that, right, that little thing, right. And there's people who will absolutely wrong and it just alienates and makes people feel horrible. You can do that with just writing how you speak without having to be like, This is for you if you're this and this is not for you if you're this, right. If you're someone who's direct and really frank and you know You want to really make it clear. Maybe you want to share that you do something really weird on the weekends, right? Well, that's clear to me that you will not be taking calls, or you will not be working on the weekends.
Because that seems like there's just certain things, that's just a really small thing. But I think writing how you speak, not writing how you speak, sets you up, just like just for making work and promoting really miserable, right. And I think so many of us have created businesses, because we weren't able to be ourselves somewhere else. And I think it'd be a real disservice to create a business where you can't be yourself, then you might as well just stay at a nine to five, because you can go be fake and get and get a really nice paycheck. Without idea that headache. Without any of the headache, you can be as fake as you want to be. And then leave at five o'clock and collect that paycheck. Real nice. And smile at people you don't care for, and curse under your breath when you have to deliver something. And I'm not going to say you're going to love what you're doing all the time, but you are going to feel respected, you are going to feel valued. And you are going to you know, for the most part feel safe. Well, everything always feel like rainbows like the most thrilling thing you've ever done in your life. No, but at least you won't feel miserable. Like, if that's enough. I think that's an all for me.
Sara: It's pretty big.
Christina: Yeah, that's a pretty big one. I mean, if you have to work with humans, I think the best way to do it is, yeah, and it just doesn't affect the people, like you said doesn't affect just the people who buy from you affects the people you hire. And in fact, it affects the people you collaborate with. Right? Like, you're just like, it's easy for you to be like, we have nothing. And that shouldn't stop you. Like there's, there's plenty of like spaces and stages that I've been in that I know that is not. And that I think tripped me up in the beginning. Like oh, and I can only work with people who have had my shared experience, who have who speak, you know, who understand my speak. But really what it meant is I have to show up in places that don't serve the way that I serve, that don't do things the way that I do it, so that I can attract an impact the people who need someone like me, because if I don't show up in those spaces that don't necessarily have a culture that I'm trying to foster, then people will know that's even a culture that they can build.
So it's not so much that you just want to always stay in the spaces where there's only people like you know, quite the contrary, we need to we need to bring our weird self we need to bring our boring self we need to bring our loud selves we need to bring our quiet selves to the spaces so that other people know there's an alternative there's there's a place for be somewhere even in those spaces where it's really homogenous,
Sara: Christina, I love that you mentioned that so much because I feel like this goes full circle back to you and your website when I told you that I loved administrator with like a biz bestie was that I was looking at other copywriters sites, right. And the truth is, so many of them seem the same, right? Like it's like, you know, in the end, like we're all like doing talking about launching or writing websites or something like, there's so many of course, like similarities across that but like the copy all felt really the same. The pictures all seem really the same, the headlines, and when I landed on yours, it was like this beacon of like, personality. And like you wrote, like, you know, your from your work, you said like your you know, your like your background, like I could see it all coming, all of you coming through the page and all these different things about you and your pictures, and you know, your references to things and I also love that about your email like that you talk about like you said, like Wu Tang or different like music that all that was coming through and it was so different that I was like to me, you were like a website that I want to look at when I you know, I look towards an admired of like, How can I bring more of me to my website? I'm not gonna bring I'm not gonna try to make me be like Christina because I'm not Christina, but how do I bring more of me? How do I turn that up? So I can really show up like that, because yours really, it really stands out. And I think if you had been putting out there and showing up, you know, different spaces and we like I know I would be much poorer for it and not you know, and my business wouldn't be as strong for it. And it's good reminder, you're saying that to show up different places. People need us and you need to do for sure. I needed you for sure. Okay. Just say all of that. Christina, how can we work with you?
Christina: Yeah, so as you know, I've ditched the retainer stuff which is really awesome because I also find everyone is just like no I want this done now not three months. So I do copy done in a day I do web copy and sales copy and it is called my brain waves and we just get your stuff done in HD which is April day or it'll Weekender but don't worry you only need I only need you for like an hour which sounds glorious, the live your life. I'm very envious of you when you do that. And then I also have my copy good to go. So maybe you aren't excellent copywriter and a lot of people are but you just need like an extra eye. You need someone to tell you what to add where and Maybe you're just not quite sure, like what you need help with, right? So I have a really cool UX a copy audit, and you can find all of those at run and tell that.co That's my website. And if you want to follow me and be this besties, I'm on Instagram at Christina T. That's Christina, whether h and then T, E, E, E, E, because there's a lot of Christina T out there, apparently. And Christina Torres was taken to so it's really generic, like Mike Johnson in the Hispanic world. So it's a very, very common name. So you can find me over there, ID and on my website missing.
Sara: And of course, we'll drop all those links in the show notes. Thank you so much for joining me today, Christina for this conversation. It was fun. Thank you.
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